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WebMD Community Talk Show

Serving up a new debate daily, this is the place where putting up your dukes and defending your opinion is encouraged.

Reply: Medical Costs More in US: Overpriced or Better Car...

Ditto jenlewi 's post. In addition, it is outrageous that insurance companies can...

Posted by bob249

Ditto jenlewi 's post.

In addition, it is outrageous that insurance companies can negotiate deep discounts from Providers while the uninsured are billed full price. Why do I say that? Insurers take at least 30 days, sometimes much longer, to pay. Uninsureds don't get a discount even if they pay in cash immediately. That's unless the uninsureds have to negotiate for themselves - who reading this has negotiated with a Provider?

From the Washington Post article ,

"The players sitting across the table from them — the health insurers — are not so profitable. In 2009, their profit margins were a mere 2.2 percent. That's a signal that the sellers have the upper hand over the buyers."

That IS misleading, for the reasons given by jenlewi .
Their profit margins may be "a mere 2.2 percent", but their executives are some of the highest paid in the world. And those SAME executives have already obtained waivers to the Affordable Care Act. Their employees WILL have annual caps on the amount that can be paid for health care. Guess they don't want to chance having to take a million or so a year pay cut...
http://ezinearticles.com/?Waivers-to-Affordable-Care-Act&id=5251038

I believe a big part of inflated health care charges occur because Providers assume they will have to apply huge discounts that insurance companies negotiate.

I hope everyone reading this takes the time to read the hotlinked article.

Many of us recognize that health care costs are a HUGE problem. And many of us cannot see how it can be brought under control because of the influence of health insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies.
( at the rate of 24 MILLION dollars a month!)

Also from the article:
"They do this in one of two ways. In countries such as Canada and Britain, prices are set by the government."
Yet another government bureacracy?
Generally Not a good idea. However, the mere threat might bring about a bit of pricing sanity...

How to reduce the influences ....

Hmm ......................................

Term limits could do it!

That's been proposed and discarded in the past.

Well, WE can do it without the legal system.

Regardless of party affiliation or presumed past performance, do NOT reelect ANY congressman! NOT ONE.

Make being upset COUNT.
View Thread

Posted bybob249

5 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Medical Costs More in US: Overpriced or Better Care? Ditto jenlewi 's post. In addition, it is outrageous that insurance companies can...

Reply: Will Repeal of Affordable Care Act Affect You?

I agree the additional coverages remove some of the financial panic that occurs when...

Posted by bob249

16 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Will Repeal of Affordable Care Act Affect You? I agree the additional coverages remove some of the financial panic that occurs when...

Reply: Will Repeal of Affordable Care Act Affect You?

"The problem with the American people is that most of them believe everything they hear ..."...

Posted by bob249

"The problem with the American people is that most of them believe everything they hear ..."

The problem with most health care provider administrators and insurance company employees is they treat other human beings like cattle with wallets/purses. Sure, almost all of them are graduates of the school of customer service. They have to be nice when they're inflating prices for everything they do.
===

"The hospital I work in writes off millions of dollars yearly to take care of the indigent."

They write off inflated bills AFTER they've taken every penny possible, including forcing bankruptcy.
Written off bills are tax deductible. While Providers complain about revenue lost, they are silent about the profits offset by tax deductions.
And they use the non-payment excuse to increase prices for customers (individuals and insurance companies) having the ability to pay.
To the extent the Affordable Care Act limits amounts/assets that can be taken from customers, it would be an improvement.
===

"With everyone having insurance ... "

THAT is my primary issue with the Affordable Care Act.
Health insurance company lobbyists STOPPED the health care bill championed by Bill & Hillary Clinton. Why, then, did they SUPPORT the current bill? Answer:
Because of the mandate for everyone to participate or pay fines.

Insurance companies SUPPORT the Affordable Care Act for one reason ONLY:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I recently had blood work performed. The bill was:
$742.00 = Total amount
- 519.90 = Contractual adjustment
- 199.90 = Insurance payment
22.20 = Patient responsibility

Those who wonder why I complain when I only had to pay $22.20 cannot be helped. They have been consumed by the deadly disease
"As long as I get mine, too bad for everyone else."

The bill was inflated because the Provider knew there would be a huge discount (contractual adjustment). If I did not have insurance I would have been charged $742 for a couple of hours of lab work. Of course I would have negotiated for a reduced bill. And the Provider would have happily pocketed a generous profit because they NEVER would have settled for the amount the insurance company negotiated.

Insurance companies are licking their chops. Why wouldn't they when executives are limited to paltry compensation.
Per http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/05/20/health-insurance-ceos-total-compensation-in-2008/

In 2008, Mr. Ronald A. Williams, CEO of Aetna, had to make do on $24,300,112 in compensation.
That is a mere $46.20 for every minute of every day.

Who do you know managing on a pittance like that?

Although he's undoubtedly received pay increases since 2008, he will enjoy the financial help that will occur when EVERYONE must buy insurance or be fined.
===

To the original question of this debate:

If the Supreme Court decides to throw out the Affordable Care Act, it will calm my concerns about the future of our democracy and give me hope for a better health care future.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-06-11-lobby_N.htm
Per the above article in USATODAY, published in 2009:
"All health sectors spent $149 million on lobbying this year, a 10% jump, according to CQ MoneyLine, a non-partisan website. Overall spending on lobbying is down 2.6% this year, according to the site."

When any lobby group spends MORE while lobbies for other groups spend LESS, it can ONLY mean they are planning on making more money in the future - and that CANNOT be good for consumers!

View Thread

Posted bybob249

16 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Will Repeal of Affordable Care Act Affect You? "The problem with the American people is that most of them believe everything they hear ..."...

Reply: Does it really matter who is President?

When a president questions the Supreme Court's authority to determine the constitutionality...

Posted by bob249

37 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Does it really matter who is President? When a president questions the Supreme Court's authority to determine the constitutionality...

Reply: Why Do You Think Autism Rates Have Risen?

Many people are addicted to their soft drinks. Aluminum cans are made of ... uh ......

Posted by bob249

15 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Why Do You Think Autism Rates Have Risen? Many people are addicted to their soft drinks. Aluminum cans are made of ... uh ......

Reply: Should the government force you to have insurance?

Your analogy indeed fits better. I agree with you fully, except ... Health insurance...

Posted by bob249

111 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Should the government force you to have insurance? Your analogy indeed fits better. I agree with you fully, except ... Health insurance...

Reply: Does it really matter who is President?

Where is the "Like" button?

Posted by bob249

37 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Does it really matter who is President? Where is the "Like" button?

Reply: Should the government force you to have insurance?

Vacuum? "Most patients opt for immediate relief and will pay any amount of money for...

Posted by bob249

Vacuum?

"Most patients opt for immediate relief and will pay any amount of money for healing."O.K., but those without insurance would be MORE THAN HAPPY to have a less expensive option available, even if it took longer.

Obamacare is written to make everyone participate. That is intended to help those who cannot obtain health insurance at the present time.

BUT, big insurance companies have already obtained waivers for their employees.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/10-health-insurance-companies-get-obamacare-waivers-their-own-employees

(CNSNews.com) — The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has granted waivers to 10 health insurance companies, including giants such as Cigna and Aetna and divisions of Blue Cross Blue Shield, from the requirements of the new health care law, also known as ObamaCare.

The waivers allow these companies to impose annual limits on the health coverage they provide to their employees. Under Obamacare, companies that do not get special waivers from the administration must phase out their caps on annual health-care benefits between now and 2014 when they must offer limitless annual benefits. The Obama administration began granting waivers to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act last September.

If you work for an insurance company, you should check whether your company has a waiver. If it does, some of your premium will be used to pay claims for people with no cap while your own benefits will be capped.
Gotta protect pay rates for the executives, after all. Limitless benefits (think cancer, AIDS, brain surgery, etc.) might mean they's have to settle for a few million less each year.

AND
The CEO's of those companies are already paid ENORMOUS compensation packages.
http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/05/20/health-insurance-ceos-total-compensation-in-2008/

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation
Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212

Why would insurance companies be granted waivers at the same time their executives are being compensated with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS?

http://www.libertariannews.org/2010/03/30/big-pharma-and-insurance-industry-lobby-heavily-for-obamacare/
According to a study released over the weekend by "The Center for Public Policy", a non-partisan public interest think tank in Washington D.C., it is estimated that a record $120 million was spent lobbying for health reform.
Miami Herald journalist John Dorschner reminds us in a March 23rd article that "In November 2008, just days after Obama's landslide victory, America's Health Insurance Plans, a trade group, made a stunning announcement, saying it favored universal coverage and supported a law that would stop insurers from rejecting applicants because of preexisting conditions. "Universal coverage is within reach," the group said in a historic press release. After being adamantly opposed to reform during the Clinton years, AHIP said it had changed its mind — based on one condition: Any reform plan had to require that all individuals have insurance or pay stiff penalties."
While capping payments for their OWN employees...

I am not living in a vacuum.

And I did NOT invest with Bernie Madhoff - because it was OBVIOUS the returns he promised were TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.View Thread

Posted bybob249

111 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Should the government force you to have insurance? Vacuum? "Most patients opt for immediate relief and will pay any amount of money for...

Reply: Should the government force you to have insurance?

Most reading do not remember when there was NO health insurance. I do. We got sick or...

Posted by bob249

111 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Should the government force you to have insurance? Most reading do not remember when there was NO health insurance. I do. We got sick or...

Reply: Should the government force you to have insurance?

Thanks for explaining. (Don't think it was necessary to use all capital letters - guess you...

Posted by bob249

Thanks for explaining.

(Don't think it was necessary to use all capital letters - guess you were/are upset.)

O.K., the insurance negotiated for a more reasonable price. I.E., volume discount. Then they make the provider wait at least 30 days for payment, sometimes much longer.

But without insurance, someone would probably be told the price is $742.00, even if they paid immediately with CASH.

Where is the discount for instant payment?

So long as the health system primarily uses for-profit insurance as the intermediary, uninsured people WILL suffer financially.

I still believe that a payroll deduction with funds only allowed to pay medical bills in a price competitive environment would be better than using anonymous premium payments would be more efficient. That would ELIMINATE insurance fraud.

And it sounds good to advertise a health insurance company is non-profit, BUT:

A citizen met with her Representative with a question:
She asked why BCBS was called non-profit when they are building huge office complexes, paying large salaries and generally spending huge amounts of money on non-insurance expenditures.[br>[br>The answer from the Rep?[br>[br>We are non-profit because we do not have shareholders. Of course we make a profit but the profit stays within the company. We pay large salaries because that is how we attract the talent needed to run the business.[br>[br>OK folks, the answer shocked her. Why are they given non-profit status when clearly they make a profit?[br>[br>Non-profit? Not at all. I think they need a new moniker. Many of us thought that non-profit means what it says. I thought the premium monies went out to pay claims. Not so, if she is correct.[br>[br>That is why we see huge new buildings, huge advertising campaigns, huge salaries. Got to use up those dollars. Deny claims? Maybe there is no money to pay them. Need to give the boss a raise.

We won't change each other's minds, but clear information is useful to anyone reading.View Thread

Posted bybob249

111 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Should the government force you to have insurance? Thanks for explaining. (Don't think it was necessary to use all capital letters - guess you...

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