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Diet Debate

We debate the various types of diets.

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Regain your weight, with the Atkins Diet

Hi folks, I originally posted this Sep 10, 2008. Hi Hilltopper, Every diet has plateau's. I don't...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi folks,

I originally posted this Sep 10, 2008.

Hi Hilltopper,

Every diet has plateau's.

I don't like to rain on people's parades, but unfortunately you have chosen a very poor diet. Please let me explain.

I spoke with a Colorado State TOPS (Take Pounds Off Sensibly) Queen. In one year, she lost the most weight of of all TOPS folks in Colorado. She proudly said she lost 63 pounds on the Atkins diet. I tried not to roll my eyes, as she was huge. She said, yes, she gained it all back and more. Of course, this can happen with all diets. But...
The National Weight Control Registry (NWCR) is a website (1) created by some university professors, to find out what plan successful weight losers used. Anyone who has lost 30 pounds, and kept it off at least a year (with a doctor's note), is encouraged to join and share their story. 5000 registry members have lost an average of 66 lbs and kept it off for 5.5 years.

Most of the registry members have a low fat diet, and exercise. ONLY 1% USED AN ATKINS STYLE DIET(2).

We all know people who defend the Atkins diet. It is not likely that they become shrinking violets, given the opportunity to join the NWCR. This means that the Atkins diet is much worse than others, when it comes to keeping the weight off.

Just as bad are the health implications of the Atkins diet. Some person's health does improve on the Atkins diet, but we believe it was due to the weight loss, and the improvement would have been greater if the person had used a healthful diet, as we use on this board. Some person's health definitely does not improve, on the Atkins diet.

We on this board use the programs of Ornish, Pritikin, McDougall, Esselstyn and Fuhrman. These programs are all very similar, and the success of one reinforces the success of all of them. I followed Pritikin for 30 years, and the world class nutritionist at the Pritikin Longevity Center recommended Fuhrman, above the Pritikin books. I have followed Fuhrman for a year, and my results have definitely improved.
I hope this helps.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

(1) http://www.nwcr.ws/ National Weight Control Registry
(2) Communication of NWCR authors with nutritionists at Pritikin Longevity CenterView Thread

Posted by EngineerGuy

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Regain your weight, with the Atkins Diet Hi folks, I originally posted this Sep 10, 2008. Hi Hilltopper, Every diet has plateau's. I don't...

Best Selling Low Carb Diet Guru regains all

Hi folks, Diet Book authors who get rich on low-carb dangerous diet books, are fair game! Be sure to...

Posted by EngineerGuy

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Best Selling Low Carb Diet Guru regains all Hi folks, Diet Book authors who get rich on low-carb dangerous diet books, are fair game! Be sure to...

This is interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7aGnfLB-8 This person seems to be doing well on a ketogenic diet. My only...

Posted by dteresa

7 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:This is interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7aGnfLB-8 This person seems to be doing well on a ketogenic diet. My only...

This is interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7aGnfLB-8 This person seems to be doing well on a ketogenic diet. My only...

Posted by dteresa

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:This is interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB7aGnfLB-8 This person seems to be doing well on a ketogenic diet. My only...

Heretic

Here are the results of my blood work....Heretic,please evaluate glucose 83(higher than it has been) vit D 22...

Posted by jc3737

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Heretic Here are the results of my blood work....Heretic,please evaluate glucose 83(higher than it has been) vit D 22...

from TC Campbell

My response can be divided into three parts, mostly addressing her argument's lack of proportionality--what's...

Posted by Anon_605

8 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:from TC Campbell My response can be divided into three parts, mostly addressing her argument's lack of proportionality--what's...

from TC Campbell

My response can be divided into three parts, mostly addressing her argument's lack of proportionality--what's...

Posted by Anon_605

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:from TC Campbell My response can be divided into three parts, mostly addressing her argument's lack of proportionality--what's...

Reunion for Heretk

http://vimeo.com/54542119 H, I am so excited. I found your long lost twin from whom you were separated at...

Posted by dteresa

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Reunion for Heretk http://vimeo.com/54542119 H, I am so excited. I found your long lost twin from whom you were separated at...

CRP

CRP..A measure of inflammation.....how can inflammation be reduced " Can CRP be reduced?Posted on November...

Posted by jc3737

CRP..A measure of inflammation.....how can inflammation be reduced

"
Can CRP be reduced?Posted on November 13, 2008 by Dr. Davis The JUPITER study has sparked a lot of discussion about c-reactive protein, or CRP.
If we follow the line of reasoning that prompted this study, reducing CRP may correlate with reduction of cardiovascular events. Thus, in the JUPITER study, Crestor 20 mg per day reduced cardiovascular events by nearly half.
From a CRP perspective, starting values were 4.2 mg/dl in the Crestor group of the trial, 4.3 mg/dl in the placebo group. After 24 months, CRP in the Crestor group was 2.2 mg/dl, 3.5 mg/dl in the placebo group, representing a 37% reduction.
Now, in our Track Your Plaque program—an experience that has yielded the virtual ELIMINATION of cardiovascular events—we aim for a CRP level of 1.0 mg/dl or less, ideally 0.5 mg/dl or less. The majority of people achieve these ambitious levels. In fact, it is a rare person who does not.
How do we achieve dramatic reductions in CRP? We use:
—Weight loss through elimination of wheat and cornstarch—This yields impressive reductions.
—Vitamin D—I have no doubt whatsoever of vitamin D's capacity to exert potent anti-inflammatory effects. I am not entirely sure why this happens (enhanced sensitivity to insulin, reduced expression of tissue inflammatory proteins like matrix metalloproteinase and others, etc.), but the effect is profound.
—Elimination of junk foods—like candies, cookies, pretzels, rice cakes, potato chips, etc.
—Exercise—Amplifies the benefits of diet on CRP reduction.
—Not allowing saturated fats to dominate—Yes, yes, I know. The demonization of saturated fat conversation has been largely replaced by the Taubesian saturated fat has not been confidently linked to heart disease conversation. But controlled feeding studies, in which a single component of diet is manipulated (e.g., saturated vs. monounsaturated vs. polyunsaturated fat) have clearly shown that saturated fats do activate several factors in the inflammatory response.
—Fish oil—Though I am a firm believer in the huge benefits of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation/restoration, the anti-inflammatory effect is modest from a CRP perspective. However, there are anti-inflammatory benefits beyond that of simple CRP (via normalization of eicosanoid metabolism and other pathways).
—Weight loss—A BIG effect. Weight loss drops CRP like a stone. The CRP-reducing effect is especially large if achieved via carbohydrate reduction.
Of course, this is much more complicated than taking a pill. But it is effective to achieve health benefits outside of cardiovascular risk, is enormously useful as part of a weight loss effort, and doesn't cost $1400 per year like Crestor.
In short, if CRP reduction is the goal, it certainly does not have to involve Crestor.
View Thread

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:CRP CRP..A measure of inflammation.....how can inflammation be reduced " Can CRP be reduced?Posted on November...

Denise - Dolores

I think you have both more in common than not. I mean it as a complement. My advise would be to talk to her,...

Posted by Heretk

16 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Denise - Dolores I think you have both more in common than not. I mean it as a complement. My advise would be to talk to her,...

insulin diabetes connection

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413112004536

Posted by jc3737

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Carb Nite Solution

Are ultra low carb diets safe for people who need to lose a maximum of 10lbs? Are they safe generally speaking?

Posted by jonesx

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Carb Nite Solution Are ultra low carb diets safe for people who need to lose a maximum of 10lbs? Are they safe generally speaking?

Dr Davis

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/dr-william-davis-warns-about-wheat-on-the-dr-oz-show/16718 Comments.

Posted by jc3737

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Dr Davis http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/dr-william-davis-warns-about-wheat-on-the-dr-oz-show/16718 Comments.

Milk, butter and longevity

http://stan-heretic.blogspot.ca/2012/11/milk-and-butter-are-good-for-you.html

Posted by Heretk

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Milk, butter and longevity http://stan-heretic.blogspot.ca/2012/11/milk-and-butter-are-good-for-you.html

Angiographs of Esselstyn's subjects

http://www.heartattackproof.com/study03_results.htm If you scroll down to the information on angiographies...

Posted by dteresa

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Angiographs of Esselstyn's subjects http://www.heartattackproof.com/study03_results.htm If you scroll down to the information on angiographies...

insulin

Fasting insulin level is something we need to consider. ...

Posted by jc3737

4 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:insulin Fasting insulin level is something we need to consider. ...

Higher stroke risk for vegetarians who exercise vi...

So says a recent Taiwanese study based on half a million people. See: ...

Posted by Heretk

20 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Higher stroke risk for vegetarians who exercise vigorously So says a recent Taiwanese study based on half a million people. See: ...

sugar

Is sugar really all that important in causing cardio disease? ...

Posted by jc3737

4 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:sugar Is sugar really all that important in causing cardio disease? ...

Pomagranates are in peak season NOW !

Hi folks, Pomagranates are in peak season now. Prices are at their lowest. I boutght about 12 large...

Posted by EngineerGuy

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Pomagranates are in peak season NOW ! Hi folks, Pomagranates are in peak season now. Prices are at their lowest. I boutght about 12 large...

Greens

I wonder if all the greens in the Fuhrman diet serve to detox the body,remove heavy metals and other toxins. ...

Posted by jc3737

3 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Greens I wonder if all the greens in the Fuhrman diet serve to detox the body,remove heavy metals and other toxins. ...

water fasting

Someone elsewhere posted an interview with fuhrnan who said he once fasted (for health reasons) and weighed 88...

Posted by dteresa

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:water fasting Someone elsewhere posted an interview with fuhrnan who said he once fasted (for health reasons) and weighed 88...

Didi (re: Atkins)

Didi wrote (elsewhere): Atkins reports in his book, "Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough" that some of his...

Posted by Heretk

Didi wrote (elsewhere):

Atkins reports in his book, "Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough" that some of his diabetic patients (he doesn't give numbers) "adjust" (quotes his) to his diet and their blood sugars increase. He said it was beneficial for them to have their lower blood sugars even for a while. So he devises a "meat and millet" diet for diabetics whereas in his first book he claims his very low carb diet is the best for diabetics. His meat and millet diet adds grains. So if the king of low carb found his diet less than perfect for diabetics for whom the popular (and I believe incorrect) wisdom says to reduce carbs, and he actually adds carbs then one might question a low carb, higher animal protein diet. Of course when you eat more animal protein you are eating more fat and cholesterol. When we talk of carbs I hope we are on the same page and are referring only to whole food as grown or very very minimally processed. Not highly processed and refined flour products or starchy food cooked in fat.[br>

Didi,
Sorry, but with all due respect, I still believe that this "meat and millet" diet is probably a myth stemming from some misinterpretation of his text.

Atkins did make small mistakes. In my opinion, allowing adding of more carbohydrates beyond 50g/d after just the first 6 months of induction stage, was the main one! But he never advocated eating huge amounts of carbs!

His 50g of carbs during "induction" was much too soon and he did not clearly specify the upper limit after the induction stage. His induction stage limit of 50g was too high for most people, except those of large body size.

Based on my recollection of diabetic people I talked to, worsening of blood glucose control after a certain period of time on his diet, was not due to some "adaptation" but precisely because they added too much carbs too soon!

Even for me, though I was not diabetic (only metabolic syndrome) it took me 2 full years before I was able to add more carbs in form of rice and fruit to my diet, beyond the initial 25g of carbs day (I couldn't tolerate even 50g initially!) . I was able to increase that to about 50gonly after 2 years! Only after about 7 years I was able to consume up to a 100g of carbs, occassionally and infrequently.

Whether he really specified adding millet to a diet they way you describe it, I seriously doubt. If you quote from memory this is may be distorted. Best thing would be to get the relevant fragment scanned and posted (you should perhaps post it on that other forum). The spirit of Atkins diet can be summarized in 2 words: "Carbohydrate Restriction". He has never changed that, as far as I know, till he died.

However, since Atkins didn't specify carb limits, an interpretation by some readers to add cereals at liberty, and then suffer from poor glucose control or worse, may have been an unfortunate outcome.

Anyway Atkins is dead and buried, but new research keeps cropping up supporting the notion of the therapeutic value of the low carb diets for people with metabolic syndrome and diabetes. That is partially Atkins legacy that has not and will not die. And that is really good news!

Best regards,
Stan (Heretic)

View Thread

Posted by Heretk

8 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Didi (re: Atkins) Didi wrote (elsewhere): Atkins reports in his book, "Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough" that some of his...

weight loss with vyvanse

Took yvanse for about 4 years. Lost about 5 lbs. when I switched to another prescription for ADHD. The weight...

Posted by Snazzy

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:weight loss with vyvanse Took yvanse for about 4 years. Lost about 5 lbs. when I switched to another prescription for ADHD. The weight...

No caffeine or salt on the Fuhrman diet?

Why no coffee or added salt on the Fuhrman diet? Thanks.

Posted by BigDaddyMatty

8 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:No caffeine or salt on the Fuhrman diet? Why no coffee or added salt on the Fuhrman diet? Thanks.

arsenic in brown rice

I eat brown rice at every meal! ...

Posted by jc3737

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:arsenic in brown rice I eat brown rice at every meal! ...

cardiologist

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/clc.4960140816/pdf

Posted by jc3737

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Dr Fuhrman's reply

Here is Dr Fuhrman's reply to the criticism on the McDougall board.Personally, I think the tension between the...

Posted by jc3737

12 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Dr Fuhrman's reply Here is Dr Fuhrman's reply to the criticism on the McDougall board.Personally, I think the tension between the...

"TColin" admits putting his name improperly as coa...

Which violates a generally accepted scientific conduct! One either is an author of the paper, or isn't! There is...

Posted by Heretk

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:"TColin" admits putting his name improperly as coauthor with Dr.Fuhrman! Which violates a generally accepted scientific conduct! One either is an author of the paper, or isn't! There is...

EG, what do you think about this post on dr.F.?

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31586

Posted by Heretk

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