My WebMD Sign In

Please enter email address

Enter your password

Keep me signed in on this computer

Show more Information

If you select "Keep me signed in on this computer", you can stay signed in to WebMD.com on this computer for up to 2 weeks or until you sign out. This means that a cookie will stay on your computer even when you exit or close your browser which may reduce your levels of privacy and security. You should never select this option if you're using a publicly accessible computer, or if you're sharing a computer with others. Even if you select this option there are some features of our site that still require you to log in for privacy reasons.

Forget your password? Having trouble signing in?

Why should I
sign up for WebMD?

With a WebMD Account you can:

Track your way to weight loss success
Manage your family's vaccinations
Join the conversation

See more benefits Sign Up

Why WebMD?

My WebMD

Show Menu

Facebook Twitter Pinterest

WebMD Home

Diet Debate

We debate the various types of diets.

Discussions

Sort by:

Didi (re: Atkins)

Didi wrote (elsewhere): Atkins reports in his book, "Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough" that some of his...

Posted by Heretk

Didi wrote (elsewhere):

Atkins reports in his book, "Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough" that some of his diabetic patients (he doesn't give numbers) "adjust" (quotes his) to his diet and their blood sugars increase. He said it was beneficial for them to have their lower blood sugars even for a while. So he devises a "meat and millet" diet for diabetics whereas in his first book he claims his very low carb diet is the best for diabetics. His meat and millet diet adds grains. So if the king of low carb found his diet less than perfect for diabetics for whom the popular (and I believe incorrect) wisdom says to reduce carbs, and he actually adds carbs then one might question a low carb, higher animal protein diet. Of course when you eat more animal protein you are eating more fat and cholesterol. When we talk of carbs I hope we are on the same page and are referring only to whole food as grown or very very minimally processed. Not highly processed and refined flour products or starchy food cooked in fat.[br>

Didi,
Sorry, but with all due respect, I still believe that this "meat and millet" diet is probably a myth stemming from some misinterpretation of his text.

Atkins did make small mistakes. In my opinion, allowing adding of more carbohydrates beyond 50g/d after just the first 6 months of induction stage, was the main one! But he never advocated eating huge amounts of carbs!

His 50g of carbs during "induction" was much too soon and he did not clearly specify the upper limit after the induction stage. His induction stage limit of 50g was too high for most people, except those of large body size.

Based on my recollection of diabetic people I talked to, worsening of blood glucose control after a certain period of time on his diet, was not due to some "adaptation" but precisely because they added too much carbs too soon!

Even for me, though I was not diabetic (only metabolic syndrome) it took me 2 full years before I was able to add more carbs in form of rice and fruit to my diet, beyond the initial 25g of carbs day (I couldn't tolerate even 50g initially!) . I was able to increase that to about 50gonly after 2 years! Only after about 7 years I was able to consume up to a 100g of carbs, occassionally and infrequently.

Whether he really specified adding millet to a diet they way you describe it, I seriously doubt. If you quote from memory this is may be distorted. Best thing would be to get the relevant fragment scanned and posted (you should perhaps post it on that other forum). The spirit of Atkins diet can be summarized in 2 words: "Carbohydrate Restriction". He has never changed that, as far as I know, till he died.

However, since Atkins didn't specify carb limits, an interpretation by some readers to add cereals at liberty, and then suffer from poor glucose control or worse, may have been an unfortunate outcome.

Anyway Atkins is dead and buried, but new research keeps cropping up supporting the notion of the therapeutic value of the low carb diets for people with metabolic syndrome and diabetes. That is partially Atkins legacy that has not and will not die. And that is really good news!

Best regards,
Stan (Heretic)

View Thread

Posted by Heretk

8 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Didi (re: Atkins) Didi wrote (elsewhere): Atkins reports in his book, "Dr Atkins Nutrition Breakthrough" that some of his...

weight loss with vyvanse

Took yvanse for about 4 years. Lost about 5 lbs. when I switched to another prescription for ADHD. The weight...

Posted by Snazzy

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:weight loss with vyvanse Took yvanse for about 4 years. Lost about 5 lbs. when I switched to another prescription for ADHD. The weight...

No caffeine or salt on the Fuhrman diet?

Why no coffee or added salt on the Fuhrman diet? Thanks.

Posted by BigDaddyMatty

8 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:No caffeine or salt on the Fuhrman diet? Why no coffee or added salt on the Fuhrman diet? Thanks.

arsenic in brown rice

I eat brown rice at every meal! ...

Posted by jc3737

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:arsenic in brown rice I eat brown rice at every meal! ...

cardiologist

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/clc.4960140816/pdf

Posted by jc3737

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:cardiologist http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/clc.4960140816/pdf

Dr Fuhrman's reply

Here is Dr Fuhrman's reply to the criticism on the McDougall board.Personally, I think the tension between the...

Posted by jc3737

12 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Dr Fuhrman's reply Here is Dr Fuhrman's reply to the criticism on the McDougall board.Personally, I think the tension between the...

"TColin" admits putting his name improperly as coa...

Which violates a generally accepted scientific conduct! One either is an author of the paper, or isn't! There is...

Posted by Heretk

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:"TColin" admits putting his name improperly as coauthor with Dr.Fuhrman! Which violates a generally accepted scientific conduct! One either is an author of the paper, or isn't! There is...

EG, what do you think about this post on dr.F.?

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31586

Posted by Heretk

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:EG, what do you think about this post on dr.F.? http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31586

low fat vegan diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1973470 Does anyone have a counter?

Posted by jc3737

21 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:low fat vegan diet http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1973470 Does anyone have a counter?

The sad end of the Calorie Restriction theory

The sad part - because for many people, including the founder of it late Dr. Roy Walford , is too late! ...

Posted by Heretk

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:The sad end of the Calorie Restriction theory The sad part - because for many people, including the founder of it late Dr. Roy Walford , is too late! ...

vit C and WAPF

Taken from another site: " As an example here there was a study that claimed vitamin C increased the risk of...

Posted by jc3737

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:vit C and WAPF Taken from another site: " As an example here there was a study that claimed vitamin C increased the risk of...

Exercise and ketosis

Do you think a ketogenic diet is compatible with exercise? How do you fuel a workout (say aerobic exercise...

Posted by Tomato05

3 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Exercise and ketosis Do you think a ketogenic diet is compatible with exercise? How do you fuel a workout (say aerobic exercise...

lucid dreams

Out of body experiences and licid dreams are strong evidence that mechanistic science is invalid and that...

Posted by jc3737

1 Reply | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:lucid dreams Out of body experiences and licid dreams are strong evidence that mechanistic science is invalid and that...

Mysterious good health

I went for my annual routine blood tests as recommended by my doctor. I have osteoporosis, so I have to see...

Posted by Tomato05

I went for my annual routine blood tests as recommended by my doctor. I have osteoporosis, so I have to see her from time to time to get my medication.

Amazing - everything is wonderful. They've checked for a whole variety of things. My blood pressure is even low. Cholesterol great. All levels of minerals, blood protein, kidney function, you name it - all excellent. The numbers are like that of a healthy 25 year old. I am 48.

I actually feel guilty. I have had a particularly bad (wicked, actually) 3 months - I've moved and was under a lot of stress, so my good diet flew out by the window. I ate what I felt like, whenever I like, including excessive amounts of sweets. I had not routine and followed no routine for meals. I've put on weight too, which I now want to lose.

I think of others who struggle with their health and who are so careful with their diets. I am sure my luck won't last if I continued like I have the last few months. I must have eaten the amount of sugar in three months that other people consume in two years! Lots of meat too, lots of yogurt, fruit, cookies, candy, bread, butter, honey, nuts. Anything, basically, just not pasta and rice (not fond of either), not fruit juice (too overpowering), not processed meat, not much cheese. Sugar has probably been the main contributor to my daily calories.

I got into really bad sleeping habits too, sleeping about 5 hours a night (dark rings under my eyes now which weren't there before).

All I can say, is that throughout I kept eating lots of vegetables (which I really like), and I exercised a lot too, on average 6 days a week, and pretty intense. Maybe these 2 factors played a role, otherwise it is just good genes. Gosh, even my eyesight has improved when I went for a recent eye examination.

I can't say that I've felt any worse, only tired from not sleeping enough. Still, I won't be pushing my luck and will now eat healthier and sleep more again. Enough of these kamakaze habits. I may have done some damage that just isn't showing yet. Weird though, I would have expected some of the sins to have shown up in the blood test results.View Thread

Posted by Tomato05

5 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Mysterious good health I went for my annual routine blood tests as recommended by my doctor. I have osteoporosis, so I have to see...

Is ADA is trying to squash a paleo blogger?

Worth having a closer look, I wonder if there is an independent confirmation of what has really gone on? ...

Posted by Heretk

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Is ADA is trying to squash a paleo blogger? Worth having a closer look, I wonder if there is an independent confirmation of what has really gone on? ...

High Protein - low Carb diet INCREASES heart attac...

Hi folks, In a study of 43,000 Swedish women, following them for 16 years, those eating fewer carbs and...

Posted by EngineerGuy

12 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:High Protein - low Carb diet INCREASES heart attacks Hi folks, In a study of 43,000 Swedish women, following them for 16 years, those eating fewer carbs and...

vegan diet

Med Hypotheses. 2009 Feb;72(2):125-8. Epub 2008 Sep 11.The low-methionine content of vegan diets may make...

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:vegan diet Med Hypotheses. 2009 Feb;72(2):125-8. Epub 2008 Sep 11.The low-methionine content of vegan diets may make...

Interesting read

http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/the-china-study-myth ...

Posted by Heretk

3 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Interesting read http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/the-china-study-myth ...

no guarantee

The Fuhrman/McDougall diet are no guarantee that you will not have a heart attack or cardio disease.Dolores was...

Posted by jc3737

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:no guarantee The Fuhrman/McDougall diet are no guarantee that you will not have a heart attack or cardio disease.Dolores was...

Amazing anti-oxidant powerhouses

Hi folks, I was amazed by this myself. ...

Posted by EngineerGuy

5 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Amazing anti-oxidant powerhouses Hi folks, I was amazed by this myself. ...

Low Carb diet book authors

Hi folks, "People getting rich selling low carb diet books, are fair game." ...

Posted by EngineerGuy

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Low Carb diet book authors Hi folks, "People getting rich selling low carb diet books, are fair game." ...

good example

Watch this.......it does make its point! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:good example Watch this.......it does make its point! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

animal rights

I got this from the McDougall board. Medical research:Do the ends justify the means or should the means be...

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:animal rights I got this from the McDougall board. Medical research:Do the ends justify the means or should the means be...

animal rights

I got this from the McDougall board. Medical research:Do the ends justify the means or should the means be...

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:animal rights I got this from the McDougall board. Medical research:Do the ends justify the means or should the means be...

Ideal Diet and Supplements

Hi folks, Several people have posted the idea that an ideal diet would need no supplements, and if a diet...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi folks,

Several people have posted the idea that an ideal diet would need no supplements, and if a diet needs supplements, it is not an ideal diet. Sounds reasonable, and I believe it does have some validity. But I would like to offer some observations, to help us consider this idea.

Do we need iron supplements? Years ago, most multi-vitamins contained 18 mg of iron, the RDA. But today, most multi-vitamins contain no iron. A few years ago scientists realized that most people got enough iron from diet, and an excess of iron was very toxic, for some people in the population, contributing significantly to heart disease and many other diseases. Only women of child bearing age, should have iron supplements.

But some people suffer from anemia, which can be very serious. These people need an iron supplement. Most of these people are wolfing down lots of red meat, on the SAD, yet they are still anemic, and need iron supplements. So should we take iron supplements or not? The answer is that we are all individuals. The people who have anemia are not WRONG. They simply don't absorb iron very well, and need a supplement. Thank heavens that modern science can identify these people with a simple blood test for iron, and it can be fixed with a simple iron supplement. But this same iron supplement would be unhealthful for most people.

How about iodine? Most people's iodine source is iodized salt. The Wiki discussion is quite interesting - a lot of stuff I had never known. Iodized salt is the easiest fix for preventable mental retardation, for example, and one third of people in the world are iodine deficient.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodised_salt

So, it looks like no diet is adequate, except for people living near the ocean who choose to eat kelp.

How about B12? Certainly vegans need to take a B12 supplement. But a lot of people wolfing down lots of meat also need B12 supplements or even injections.

So, between people who don't absorb specific nutrients very well, or need more nutrients, really only some portion of people can be fully healthy on any diet, in the absence of supplements.

So is it true that a vegan diet is not optimal, because it requires B12 supplements? I don't think so. On the other hand, maybe a few ounces of meat, fish or poultry, per week or per month, is closer to optimal. It looks like all diets require iodine supplements, except those adding kelp.

There are many other nutrients with large individual variation in requirements.

Just some thoughts.

Best regards, EngineerGuyView Thread

Posted by EngineerGuy

4 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Ideal Diet and Supplements Hi folks, Several people have posted the idea that an ideal diet would need no supplements, and if a diet...

please analyze

1/23/2012 cholesterol 133 diet: brown rice,steamed vegetables, triglycerides 106 baked potato,flax...

Posted by jc3737

21 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:please analyze 1/23/2012 cholesterol 133 diet: brown rice,steamed vegetables, triglycerides 106 baked potato,flax...

please analyze

1/23/2012 cholesterol 133 diet: brown rice,steamed vegetables, triglycerides 106 baked potato,flax...

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:please analyze 1/23/2012 cholesterol 133 diet: brown rice,steamed vegetables, triglycerides 106 baked potato,flax...

Dolores

If you have that Atkins book where he is advocating a "meat and millet" diet for diabetics that you were often...

Posted by Heretk

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:Dolores If you have that Atkins book where he is advocating a "meat and millet" diet for diabetics that you were often...

fiber

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/1/14

Posted by jc3737

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This Discussion Report This | Share this:fiber http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/1/14

1 2 3 4 5

See Related Eating & Diet Communities

See All Communities

Women's Health Newsletter

Find out what women really need.

Spotlight: Member Stories

hot4truckers

Let's see.... I'm the mom of six (three hers, three mine) who used to live in Florida but now lives in the Chicago area. (Don't ask.) I&#...More

See All Posts by hot4truckers

More Members

Louise_WebMD_Staff

Edit your story | See All Members

Popular Discussions

Start a Discussion | See All

Helpful Tips

Scientific Evidence for HCG Weight Loss

The words "scientific evidence" are being thrown around a lot recently in regard to "DIETS" and while those words appear to be "Medically ... More

Was this Helpful?

12 of 29 found this helpful

Old Discussions

Post a Tip | See All

Helpful Resources

Atkins diet's return reflects ...

The China Study

Carcinogenicity of casein

High Fat Dairy

Post a Resource | See All

Report Problems to the
Food and Drug Administration

You are encouraged to report negative side effects of prescription drugs to the FDA. Visit the FDA MedWatch website or call 1-800-FDA-1088.

Other Member Communities

Dieting Club: 10 - 25 Lbs Member Community Share Your Tips and Support!
Caregiving Member Community The Support and Understanding You Need!
Parenting Friends Talking Member Community Get Support from Members Like You!

The opinions expressed in WebMD User-generated content areas like communities, reviews, ratings, or blogs are solely those of the User, who may or may not have medical or scientific training. These opinions do not represent the opinions of WebMD. User-generated content areas are not reviewed by a WebMD physician or any member of the WebMD editorial staff for accuracy, balance, objectivity, or any other reason except for compliance with our Terms and Conditions. Some of these opinions may contain information about treatments or uses of drug products that have not been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. WebMD does not endorse any specific product, service, or treatment.

Do not consider WebMD User-generated content as medical advice. Never delay or disregard seeking professional medical advice from your doctor or other qualified healthcare provider because of something you have read on WebMD. You should always speak with your doctor before you start, stop, or change any prescribed part of your care plan or treatment. WebMD understands that reading individual, real-life experiences can be a helpful resource, but it is never a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment from a qualified health care provider. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor or dial 911 immediately.

Diet Debate

See All