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HereticView Thread

I agree, except the first statement. McDougall diet may be right for you at this moment and IMHO in the short term only, and I do hope you are supplementing with B12, D3, A and K2. McDougall is not right because he is mistaken saying that natural native human nutrition is or should be strictly plant-only. There are no strict vegan natives living or having lived anywhere in the world and even some who live predominantly on starchy vegetables and fruit do also consume some animal produce, fish or shelfish. If he disagrees let him show us one!
McDougall diet may be right for some people in some circumstances but I think he is generally WRONG on lecturing everybody to eat mostly starch. I met many diabetics on the webmd and other on-line forums who tried it, and for whom such high starch diets resulted in their blood sugar spiking consistently DANGEROUSLY high and some whose arteriosclerosis has been progressing no differently from the general Western population.
Regards,
HereticView Thread

Ornish, McDougall and Campbell have been for years trying to lecture us but avoiding a dialog with us! What is the point of, for example Jimmy Moore having a polite conversation on air, if his opponent immediately gets emotional and then confrontational? McDougall showed that he does not seem to value a dialog!
They are grown adults who will bear the fruit of their actions and beliefs of what is and what is not "right". Besides, you need two to want to have a dialog not just one guy like Moore!
Heretic
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Had he applied scientific method of questioning his theories and examining the data from several point of views, he would never have written his condemnation of animal produce in his China Study book since the raw China study data published by Oxford was not supporting it!
There is just too many mistakes and too many attempts at what looks to me like damage control exercises instead of a dialog, for example with Masterjohn. I am writing DIALOG not debate because dialog is when two sides are talking while considering each other partners. Debates produced by Campbell, McDougall or Fuhrman resemble a duel fought to death. Not an inch back! You had a good example with McDougall vs Moore, or previously Campbell vs Minger, Campbell vs Masterjohn etc.
HereticView Thread


Isn't it quite typical in the way many not just some vegans react to contrary arguments? A vast majority of vegan forums seems full of highly strung easily offended people who tend to get extremely angry at a slightest of a disagreement!
I think it is a common pattern, not an exception!
Unlike McDougall who insisted on a complete conformance to his views, Moore simply stated if McDougall's vegetable diet does good to some people then by all means do it, while if someone else thrives instead on fat and low carb then it is fine too.
This is very refreshing, I am glad guys like Moore exist and talk!
HereticView Thread


I think there is a certain point beyond which one's investment of time in correcting other people's errors produces a diminishing return. I think there is a point of diminishing return beyond which correcting errors of people like Dr. Campbell becomes counter-productive. Paper is patient.
This is interesting:
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/coronary-heart-disease/by-country/
Dr. Cate blog is also good.View Thread
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