that's a good question. It looks like the conclusion was the diet helped but not significantly.
I also wonder about the low fat plant diet. Other than certain well known low fat high carb plant based diet gurus, I have never seen a low fat diet that had a fat level below thirty percent. Unless one specifies exactly what people are eating I remain skeptical.
I just had an 88 year old cousin die from spinal cancer which I believe started out as prostate cancer. One often hears that you die with prostate cancer but not from it but in this case the prostate cancer did lead to his death.
I was on the net trying to find some credible evidence about osteoporosis, diet, vitamins etc. I could not, in the short time I was looking, find anything that didn't have another article disagreeing with it.
I read that the elderly in nursing homes have less hip fracture with a combination of calcium and vitamin D. That in the elderly, more protein means less bone fracture. I also read that the eskimos and scandinavians have what might be the highest rate of osteoporosis.
The eskimo eat plenty of protein and also bones from the fish which means they are getting plenty of protein and calcium. Of course they do not get vitamin D from plenty of sunshine but they do consume fish and oils which have D.
Scandinavians consume lots of dairy.
Bantu women consume only about 350 mgs calcium per day, give birth to and nurse several children and do not get osteoporosis.
Osteoporosis and hip fracture has been increasing all over the world except in some places where it increased then leveled out.
One article said fruits and vegetables are known to help prevent osteoporosis.
If the rates of hip and spine fracture are increasing in the US then it has to be mostly among meat, fat and dairy eaters primarily because there are lots more of them and only a very few percent of the population are vegan. So go to any hospital or nursing home and count the number of hip fractures and determine what percentage of patients are vegan and what percent meat and dairy eaters. There should be a smaller number of vegan fracture patients simply because there are far fewer vegans. If there are lots of them compared to meat eaters, or lots of them percentage wise compared to all vegans then that says something too.
If protein is important in preventing osteoporosis and improving bone health does that mean that beans and other high protein plant foods will do the job as well? Or not?
jc, I am not convinced that people on whole food vegan diets do not get osteoporosis. In the first place you can eat a healthful vegan diet or an unhealthful one. For instance what if you ate a macrobiotic whole foods diet with very little greens or other vegetables or fruits.
What if you ate a completely healthful whole foods diet but got no sun or exercise?
And very few of us were eating a whole foods vegan diet more than a few years and only started after serious health problems. While eating a healthful plant diet might heal heart problems would it do the same for osteoporosis? I do not know.
Whatever the relationship between protein, calcium and osteoporosis, it seems to be true that those countries which eat the most dairy which contains lots of protein and calcium are also the ones with the highest fracture rates.
While it may be true that you can live without carbs and on a ketogenic diet I have to wonder for how long and how healthfully. Look at the diets children are being fed. Starting with cow's milk or perhaps soy milk formula instead of six months of breast milk alone followed by several months of continued nursing. Then all kinds of processed foods loaded with salt, fat and sugar and scarcely a vegetable in sight. And these kids can do well in school and participate on sports teams and grow into adults who reproduce and so on. Eventually their poor diets will catch up to them and we do not know how long you can exist on a ketogenic diet.
Certainly epileptic children often show serious side effects on a ketogenic diet and it is only used as a last resort because of the side effects.
Of course humans can survive in ketosis. It developed as an evolutionary backup. Kind of like that little tire they put in cars as a spare nowadays. You can drive on it until you get to somewhere where a regular tire can be put on but you are not advised to use it as a permanent tire.
Even the eskimos who are probably genetically adapted through thousands of years on their mostly meat diet greedily eat carbs when they can get them. Even going so far as to open the stomachs of the slaughtered migrating herd animals and eating the contents for the grasses the animals ate.
Once I wake up after three or four hours I cannot get back to sleep.
I hate to say this because no one will believe me but if I eliminate too much salt my blood pressure gets higher. It was 130 systolic until a few days ago when I decided to eliminate even the hot sauce to get it lower when I saw the cardiologist last thursday, and instead it went up to 150. I added back in the hot sauce and sure enough it is back down. But if I have too much salt it goes back up. Can't figure it out.
While garlic and those other items might lower blood pressure do they do it because they are correcting whatever it is that is raising your pressure or are they more like meds which lower pressure without getting at the root cause of why it is high in the first place?
dolores ps I am happy to report I do not have prostate issues.View Thread
I am having a hard time remembering exactly. I think I did not use salt from the shaker but may have been using only tobasco or chipotle sauce or red devil sauce or some other hot sauce with salt. Bread has salt in it. Beans do even after you rinse them off. And so on.
My pulse is very low. It was in the forties at this last doctor's visit and is usually in the fifties.
Unlike when I was young, I sleep three or four hours a night but usually nap in the afternoon. And doze off when watching tv. When I visit my brother he asks what movie I would like to sleep through that evening. Then when I go to bed I am wide awake.
My average blood pressure varied. Oddly, mine is always higher first thing in the morning when everyone else's is low. Of course I have probably been up for a few hours before getting out of bed. I would guess around 140 systolic with a low diastolic. Therefore a high pulse pressure.
Are they talking about white rice eating subjects?
Is this something new? Is it not true that IHD is practically unheard of in China---or was at one time?
They only replaced one serving of (white?) rice with one serving of vegetables. Not very much.
The study tells us nothing about the efficacy of a Fuhrman diet. No one did a study on a diet as high in vegetables, nuts and beans and compared it to a diet with more whole starches. I do not think anyone would waste money on a comparison of Fuhrman and McDougall diets. They are both plant based. However, doesn't Fuhrman allow fish?
There were a lot of people in the study. It is a possibility but unlikely that there was such a lack of vegetables that only one serving would result in longer life. Even McDougall says that you will not get all the nutrients you need unless you add colorful vegetables to the starch diet.
OK. Human infants do need animal fat. They get it from an animal, their own mothers--- via the milk of their mothers. And being nursed for at least two years.
Crow, if the human body needs animal fat, what would the consequences be of not eating it? So far as I know, humans need two essential fats, omega sixes and omega threes, both of which are obtained from plants. Everything else we can manufacture in our own bodies. Oatmeal, for instance, is about fifteen per cent fat. But I have never read anywhere of the necessity of consuming animal fat other than as a source of storage calories for times of food scarcity which those of us in this country do not have to worry about. It also might help keep arctic dwellers warm but they are not known for good health or long life.
Do you have a specific reason or a study you can point to for believing we need animal fat? Or is it just a feeling you have?
cranberries, which I don't eat because I can't eat them without sugar, have lots of iodine if grown near the sea. A couple of medium potatoes have almost one hundred percent of the daily need for iodine in the skins. I am guessing that this too depends on where and how they were grown but fortunately we get food from all over the place and I hope they all do not come from mineral deficient soils. There are also small amounts of iodine in lots of the other foods we eat.