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Diet Debate

We debate the various types of diets.

Reply: Didi's misconceptions about Jimmy Moore's new diet

Hi Heretic, Re "I recommend to seriously consider a possibility that Jimmy Moore's...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi Heretic,

Re "I recommend to seriously consider a possibility that Jimmy Moore's approach, albeit not perfect the first time around, may have some validity for him and for other diabetics! At least he is trying, makes his own tests and takes corrective action based on the outcomes. This is a true scientific approach, in a stark contrast to Dr. McDougall whose idea of "science" is to blast his own theories through his media outlets and ban everybody who disagrees."

The National Weight Control Registry tells us that only 2% of successful weight loss people, used a high protein style diet. (2) Certainly everybody who has tried to lose weight, has tried Atkins. All diets have problems with some dieters regaining weight. But Atkins seems to be the worst, in terms of keeping it off, for almost all people.

Dr. Atkins died obese, with heart disease (from a virus, according to his publicists). He probably died of a stroke, since there were no bruises on his hands, to break his fall. His family fought in court to keep his bad health and autopsy a secret, and then sold the Atkins name for hundreds of millions of dollars to a diet company. That sounds very un-ethical to me. And then Atkins' family said Dr. Fleming was unethical, because he made public some autopsy information, which typically is public information, prior to being aware of the court action.

Jimmy Moore has no calcified arteries? Really? How do you know? He is a young man yet.

Go with the program that have the best results(1):

"Researchers at UCLA followed 652 men and women with Type 2 diabetes who attended the Pritikin Longevity Center and found that within three weeks, 76% of those recently diagnosed with the disease (they were not yet on oral drugs) were able to lower their blood glucose to normal ranges."

"Many diabetics can even get off their medications. A meta-analysis of 864 Type 2 diabetics found that 74% who arrived at Pritikin on oral drugs no longer needed them when they left the Center three weeks later. They had reduced their blood glucose to normal ranges without drugs. Of those diabetics taking insulin injections, 44% were successful in getting off insulin."

"Several studies have also found that the Pritikin Program reduces fasting insulin by 30 to 40%."

"New research has also found that the Pritikin Program can reverse the Metabolic Syndrome. In 50% of adult Americans studied, the Pritikin Program reversed the diagnosis of Metabolic Syndrome, and in just three weeks. In new research following children with the Metabolic Syndrome, 100% no longer had the syndrome within two weeks of starting the Pritikin Program."

Some people like theories more than results. There are lots of theories. How can we know what to believe?

(1) http://www.pritikin.com/your-health/health-benefits/diabetes.html

(2) personal communication between http://www.nwcr.ws/ professors, and Dr. Jay Kenney of the Pritikin Center.

Best regards, EngineerGuyView Thread

Posted byEngineerGuy

8 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Didi's misconceptions about Jimmy Moore's new diet Hi Heretic, Re "I recommend to seriously consider a possibility that Jimmy Moore's...

Reply: vegetables don't correlate with benefits???

Hi jc, Re: "Why does the med diet correlate with benefits but this does not. Maybe...

Posted by EngineerGuy

16 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:vegetables don't correlate with benefits??? Hi jc, Re: "Why does the med diet correlate with benefits but this does not. Maybe...

Reply: DNA methylation reduced by green leafy vegetables;...

Hi Dolores, I love Dr. McDougall, his enthusiasm and drive. However his advice not to...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi Dolores,

I love Dr. McDougall, his enthusiasm and drive. However his advice not to take any supplements, except for B12 if vegan, is much too simplistic, and bad advice.

When I was 58, I learned at the Pritikin Center, that sunlight was very healthful, to make vitamin D. I realized that I got no sunlight. So, I started running 4 miles every day outside at noon. After 2 years of this, I got my bones DEXA tested, and was shocked to find my hips were at the bottom of osteopenia, almost to osteoporosis. My spine was at the top of osteopenia, almost in the normal range. I also got my vitamin D tested, for the first time in my life, in June (lots of sunlight). I was severely deficient in D, with a reading of 16, which is well correlated with osteoporisis, heart disease, diabetes, depression, and cancer. Furthermore, my eye doctor told me I had mild cataracts. My dermatologist told me I had skin tags, which are sometimes pre-cancerous, so he squirted liquid nitrogen on them in about 30 seconds, and charged my insurance $200. So, I had plenty of UV to give me skin tags and cataracts, but not enough UV to give me adequate vitamin D.

If I followed Dr. McDougall's advice, I never would have known I was deficient in D, in spite of getting lots of sunlight. This would have been very serious.

Follow up with the cataracts: The doctor said most doctors would recommend having them removed, but he said to just watch them. That was the last day I ever went into sunlight without dark wrap around sunglasses. The next year the doctor did not mention them. Because they went away.

Dr. Fuhrman and Dr. McDougall agree that several vitamins, such as folic acid, vitamin A from Palmitate, and beta carotene, are harmful. Most physicians agree that Omega 3 supplements (fish oil or algae oil) are very valuable, as well as Vitamin D. It is best to get your vitamin D blood level checked (the next time you check your cholesterol). Ideal blood level is 35 to 55. Many people need about 2000 IU of D3 to have this ideal level. A few people need no supplement, and a few people need much more.

To make a long story short, Dr. Fuhrman offers a "Mens Health" and "Womens Health" vitamin, formulated for people on his diet. I take the Mens Health. These vitamins have no folic acid, no vitamin A, etc, as these are plentiful and healthful in the diet, and harmful in the form in supplements. His discussion on Mens vitamins (there is another sheet on Womens vitamins)

http://www.drfuhrman.com/shop/multi_details.aspx

So, yes, proper supplements are very helpful, in my opinion. And, we are not all the same. Iron is no longer in multivitamins, as of years ago. Iron is toxic in excess, and any iron supplements is too much for most people (except menstruating women). However, if you have ever been diagnosed as anemic, you probably need supplements, and in a dose that diet cannot provide.

So, to answer your question, I would agree with Dr. McDougall that the way most people take vitamins, is not healthful, but I disagree with Dr. McDougall on his harmful advice not to take any supplements except B12 for vegans. I myself have been harmed by not taking Vitamin D, for I have no idea how many years, that I was D deficient.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

Best regards, EngineerGuyView Thread

Posted byEngineerGuy

4 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:DNA methylation reduced by green leafy vegetables; Reduce Lung Cancer Hi Dolores, I love Dr. McDougall, his enthusiasm and drive. However his advice not to...

Cruciferous veggies prevent cancer

Hi folks, Science is finding many whole plant foods to have anti cancer properties....

Posted by EngineerGuy

0 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Cruciferous veggies prevent cancer Hi folks, Science is finding many whole plant foods to have anti cancer properties....

DNA methylation reduced by green leafy vegetables;...

Hi folks, The new science of Epigenetics is learning some amazing things. DNA...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi folks,

The new science of Epigenetics is learning some amazing things.

DNA Methylation is the way DNA is programmed to become differentiated cells, within the body. The sperm and egg have DNA that is not methylated. When a cell becomes a pancreas cell (or any other kind of cell), the genes that should not be expressed, become methylated, which deactivates the undesired gene, and leaving the desired genes for the pancreas activity.

But during our life, additional, undesirable methylation can occur. Recall Dr. Dean Ornish' study, showing that healthy diet upregulates good genes, and down regulates bad genes, concerning prostate cancer.

One study showed that obese rats had more obese children, compared to normal weight rat parents. It is believed that the DNA of the obese rats had increased methylation, which was inherited by the rat kids. In this case, DNA methylation is DNA damage. (I do not have a reference for this study.)

This is a very recent non-technical explanation about vegetables helping to prevent cancer.
July 8, 2012
http://mygrandmawasright.wordpress.com/tag/cruciferous-vegetables/

This is a technical paper working to predict lung cancer for smokers, based on the methylation of 8 genes that suppress lung cancer. If the gene is methylated, it cannot do it's job, and the smoker is likely to get lung cancer. The paper showed that folks who ate veggies, had less methylation of these good genes. Eating more meat and saturated fat also showed a negative affect, as expected from prior research, but the affect was not statistically significant.
Cancer Research Dec 15, 2012
Multivitamins, Folate, and Green Vegetables Protect against Gene Promoter Methylation in the Aerodigestive Tract of Smokers
Christine A. Stidley1,
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/2/568.full

This study has identified two dietary variables, leafy green vegetables and folate, along with multivitamin use that could help reduce the incidence of lung cancer by reducing the induction of methylation in the aerodigestive tract of smokers.

These are technical papers which would help understanding of the lung cancer paper. I am only beginning to begin to understand this. It is amazing what science is starting to learn.

Chromatin remodelling
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/Chromatin-Remodeling-in-Eukaryotes-1082

DNA Methylation
http://www.news-medical.net/health/DNA-Methylation-What-is-DNA-Methylation.aspx

The Role of Methylation in Gene Expression
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/the-role-of-methylation-in-gene-expression-1070

Best regards, EngineerGuyView Thread

Posted byEngineerGuy

4 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:DNA methylation reduced by green leafy vegetables; Reduce Lung Cancer Hi folks, The new science of Epigenetics is learning some amazing things. DNA...

Reply: Pomegranates - amazing

Hi Dolores, Yes, they are in season now. My better half and I have taken the arils...

Posted by EngineerGuy

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Pomegranates - amazing Hi Dolores, Yes, they are in season now. My better half and I have taken the arils...

Reply: Regain your weight, with the Atkins Diet

Hi Dolores, My earlier post was on the Ornish forum, thus the misplaced reference to...

Posted by EngineerGuy

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Regain your weight, with the Atkins Diet Hi Dolores, My earlier post was on the Ornish forum, thus the misplaced reference to...

Reply: This is interesting

Hi folks, He did say that he was eating refined carbohydrates, but all the exercise...

Posted by EngineerGuy

7 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:This is interesting Hi folks, He did say that he was eating refined carbohydrates, but all the exercise...

Pomegranates - amazing

Hi folks, We do not recommend a diet centered on any one food. But we do include some...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi folks,

We do not recommend a diet centered on any one food. But we do include some foods most days. This would be one of those foods.

This is lifted from a Dr. Fuhrman email:

The seeds and juice of the pomegranate possess potent antioxidant and anticancer properties. Recent research has shown that pomegranates inhibit breast cancer, prostate cancer, colon cancer and leukemia and prevent vascular changes that promote tumor growth in lab animals.1 The potent antioxidative compounds in pomegranates have been shown to reverse atherosclerosis and reduce excessive blood clotting and platelet clumping, factors that can lead to heart attacks and strokes.2 Pomegranates can naturally lower blood pressure.3 When heart patients with severe carotid artery blockages were given a daily dose of less than an ounce of pomegranate juice for a year, their blood pressure decreased by over 20 percent and they had a 30 percent reduction in atherosclerotic plaque.4 Pomegranates also reduce tissue damage in those with kidney problems, reduce the incidence of kidney infections and prevent serious infections.5

References

1. Kim Nd, Mehta R, Yu W, et al. Chemopreventive and adjuvant therapeutic potential of pomegranate (Punica granatum) for human breast cancer. Breast Cancer Res Treat 2002; 71(3): 203-17. Kohno H, Suzuki R, Yasui Y, et al. Pomegranate seed oil rich in conjugated linolenic acid suppresses chemically induced colon carcinogenesis in rats. Cancer Sci 2004; 95(6): 481-86. Toi M, Bando H, Ramachandran C, et al. Preliminary studies on the anti-angiogenic potential of pomegranate fractions in vitro and in vivo. Angiogen 2003; 6(2): 121-28. Kawaii S, Lansky EP. Differentiation-promoting activity of pomegranate (Punica granatum) fruit extracts in HL-60 human promyelocytic leukemia cells. J Med Food 2004; 7(1): 13-18

2. Aviram M. Dornfeld L, Rosenblat M, et al. Pomegranate juice consumption reduces oxidative stress, atherogenic modifications to LDL, and platelet affregation: studies in humans and in atherosclerotic apolipoprotein E-deficient mice. Am J Clin Nutr 2000; 71(5): 1062-76.

3. Aviram M. Dornfeld L. Pomegranate juice consumption inhibits serum angiotensin coveting enzyme activity and reduces systolic blood pressure. Atheroscl 2001; 158(1): 195-8

4. Aviram M, Rosenblat M, Gaitini D, et al. Pomegranate juice consumption for 3 years by patients with carotid artery stenosis reduces common carotid intima-media thickness, blood pressure, and LDL oxidation. Clin Nutr 2004; 23(3): 423-33.

5/ American Society of Nephrology (2010, Nov 19). Pomegranate juice reduces damage to tissues, inflammation and infections, study suggests. Science Daily. Retrieved Mar 12, 2011, from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101119083126.htm .View Thread

Posted byEngineerGuy

6 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Pomegranates - amazing Hi folks, We do not recommend a diet centered on any one food. But we do include some...

Regain your weight, with the Atkins Diet

Hi folks, I originally posted this Sep 10, 2008. Hi Hilltopper, Every diet has...

Posted by EngineerGuy

Hi folks,

I originally posted this Sep 10, 2008.

Hi Hilltopper,

Every diet has plateau's.

I don't like to rain on people's parades, but unfortunately you have chosen a very poor diet. Please let me explain.

I spoke with a Colorado State TOPS (Take Pounds Off Sensibly) Queen. In one year, she lost the most weight of of all TOPS folks in Colorado. She proudly said she lost 63 pounds on the Atkins diet. I tried not to roll my eyes, as she was huge. She said, yes, she gained it all back and more. Of course, this can happen with all diets. But...
The National Weight Control Registry (NWCR) is a website (1) created by some university professors, to find out what plan successful weight losers used. Anyone who has lost 30 pounds, and kept it off at least a year (with a doctor's note), is encouraged to join and share their story. 5000 registry members have lost an average of 66 lbs and kept it off for 5.5 years.

Most of the registry members have a low fat diet, and exercise. ONLY 1% USED AN ATKINS STYLE DIET(2).

We all know people who defend the Atkins diet. It is not likely that they become shrinking violets, given the opportunity to join the NWCR. This means that the Atkins diet is much worse than others, when it comes to keeping the weight off.

Just as bad are the health implications of the Atkins diet. Some person's health does improve on the Atkins diet, but we believe it was due to the weight loss, and the improvement would have been greater if the person had used a healthful diet, as we use on this board. Some person's health definitely does not improve, on the Atkins diet.

We on this board use the programs of Ornish, Pritikin, McDougall, Esselstyn and Fuhrman. These programs are all very similar, and the success of one reinforces the success of all of them. I followed Pritikin for 30 years, and the world class nutritionist at the Pritikin Longevity Center recommended Fuhrman, above the Pritikin books. I have followed Fuhrman for a year, and my results have definitely improved.
I hope this helps.

Best regards, EngineerGuy

(1) http://www.nwcr.ws/ National Weight Control Registry
(2) Communication of NWCR authors with nutritionists at Pritikin Longevity CenterView Thread

Posted byEngineerGuy

2 Replies | Reply | Watch This DiscussionReport This| Share this:Regain your weight, with the Atkins Diet Hi folks, I originally posted this Sep 10, 2008. Hi Hilltopper, Every diet has...

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