Agree with both Anon above and CT Beth and thank you for trying to explain things...
That's all we are saying.....you can't just petition the entire "Obama administration" as that includes many people from the VP , to the Sec. of State to his Chief of Staff and just write, "We are upset over not getting pain meds"....
We have all tried to help you Lee...but you seem to be missing the point entirely....
I'm not sure you understand how government works both Federal and State as well as how laws are made and passed. I'm not trying to be snarky...I'm saying it factually as you think that this particular petition without anything referenced is going to do something....
You can't expect people to sign something when you don't even have any specific details for them to read.
I will say it one more time....You will not overturn any law (which ones we don't even know) by having some petition sent to a generic Obama White House.gov address.
They have nothing to do with any new changes as I already showed you that the CSA has not been amended since Oct. of 2008.
People should find out about their own states laws/regulations in regards to controlled substances...and I'll say it again....you will have much better luck with looking at what is coming down the pike.
People in all 50 states are still getting pain meds prescribed to them. Not everyone has to see there Dr. every month and I don't know of any state that requires this. If someone has proof of this please show us. As well as I don't know of any state that requires a urine test every month.
I DO know for a fact that the DEA does not require this (monthly visits and monthly urine tests)
Lee...you say that you had a Dr. lose his license....That means that he was likely breaking the law and either taking meds himself, prescribing to known addicts, or doing something that most Drs. should not be doing. This does not happen lightly and for no reason.
I think we are going in circles as you aren't willing to see what quite a few of us are saying. We just wanted facts and figures....details. Not too much to ask.View Thread
I know that I can come across very "direct" as well..LOL..So I was truly just trying to give you all the details from how it looks on their end.
(My punctuation was terrible the last post! ahhh!! )
Anyway, it sounds like you have been seeing this Dr. for a long time and he knows you as a patient so that is a good thing and hopefully this can just be a learning lesson and you all just move forward in a positive way.
So, I apologize for coming on strong as well..I just want to really impress upon you or others how important this issue is or anything to do with opiates.
I'm not sure why you are getting mad at those of us who took time to reply and give honest feedback. We are trying to let you know what it looks like on the Drs. end..
You came and posted and asked whether we thought you "should" be kicked out or not...
Getting defense or mad at us seems out of place.
I truly hope you aren't this defensive with your Dr. To me, it would bode better for you with them if you took a humble but honest approach. To say that you had "no clue" that it wasn't wrong or that the meds were "sort of" the same is actually going to backfire on you if you tell the Dr. this.
They expect people to not just read the bottle which actually says right on it in (it is written on mine underneath the Pharmacies address) and says "Caution" Federal Law prohibits the transfer of this drug to anyone but the patient for whom it was prescribed. As well as it's in very bold print on all the written inserts that comes with the prescription in the bag from the Pharmacy.
Many of us (will soon become mandatory) sign an actual pain management contract with the Dr. each year stating all this in great detail along with that we will not accept controlled substances from any other Dr. except in an Emergency. It states that if the meds are lost or stolen they will not replace..etc.
So to me, if you claim to your Dr. that you didn't understand how these are actual controlled substances and extremely strong pain medication and that you could have overdosed by taking something a lot stronger than your meds, or if you got into a car accident and hurt/killed someone else they would have found these meds in your system which would trickle down from you to your friend. This may make things even worse by saying you had no clue about any of the possible dangers.
I guess my point was coming clean "after" they tell you that you have failed your urine test is much different than telling them the day you took the test as well as brought in your meds to show them that you had the two extra of your pills.
To me it would be best to say that you made a terrible mistake and that you absolutely realize how dangerous it could have been for all involved. Anon 57995 was just trying to explain how many people it could have affected if it all went wrong. If your friend had a pill count from her Dr. and was short those two pills then she could get kicked out as well.
All of this is not to scold you but to answer your post and explain what the Drs. view is. If for any reason the state or the DEA needs to look over your Drs. records he will have to give reasons why he kept someone on after failing a urine test and taking someone else's meds. So it is a HUGE deal for them to decide to keep you on. This is why I think you should go overboard on making sure that you tell your Dr. just how much you have learned from this and exactly "why" it was a bad decision. I bet he would feel better knowing that you truly get it and aren't just upset because you got caught.
We are all truly trying to help you, but also anyone who reads these threads. That is why I ended my other post by saying thank you for being honest here.View Thread
Now that is a great re-cap of what we are asking!! Thanks so much!
I hope that Lee will come back to answer some of these details because if they truly believe in wanting to make any changes or make others take notice, it needs to be very specific and sent to the correct place/people.
(Statements in general)
Keep in mind that the Controlled Substances Act that the DEA is in charge of enforcing was created back in 1970 by Congress.
The last official amendment was on October 15, 2008. President Obama has not signed a single bill from Congress in regards to amending or adding to the CSA.
As I've mentioned in other posts, it is the state in which you (collective you) live and your state legislators, governor, lobbyists, interest groups, or even individuals that can introduce an idea for a bill.
It's then very important to find out who sponsored that bill and who actually voted for it to become law. Obviously the governor had to sign the bill for it to become law in the end but it's best to also petition those who actually drafted and voted for the bill.
To me, once something has become law, it's extremely difficult to overturn it. This is a true rarity.
People would be much better served to understand their state and local government and keep an eye on NEW bills being introduced that may affect chronic pain patients and be a part of the process to petition then and get the attention of those legislators BEFORE they ever vote on it.
We can still agree to disagree in that I still think the majority of those doing illegal activities are not true pain patients that are jjust out of options but those seeking just to get high or make money dealing.
I truly DO empathize and understand that it is much harder in states like KY or FL due to the passing of tighter legislation...that people should find the particular part of the law that they object to and contact their Senator/Representative.
I really think that also getting Doctors and Pharmacists you find who also object that this will only strengthen any type of petition that someone wants to send.
Thank you for recognizing that in this post only...we are just trying to find out the details of certain laws that are actual prohibiting Drs. from prescribing medications to pain patients. That the rest of this board is about people posting their personal stories where there is empathy and support...View Thread
Just FYI but this particular thread is 5 months old...You will get a lot more comments/thoughts if you start your own thread so that others will see it more easily as I would hate for it to get lost in the pages here....View Thread
?? I'm not sure where you are getting your information? Could you please elaborate on this.
I do know for a fact that any lab test that is sent out that uses gas chromatography mass spectrometry it will show every single different type of substance. That is the whole reason they send them out and they are so expensive.
A urine test in house with a dip stick only shows the presence of a few certain meds and not the amount.
The GC/MS test can tell the amount to the absolute minute detail. This type of testing is used in fire investigation, criminal forensics, law enforcement and even security for explosives detection.
My PM uses this test for our yearly analysis and we go over the results and have discussed things as he and I are actually friends outside of our appts. so I have spent many hours asking detailed questions as I love to learn.
So, if you have something that shows that hydrocodones will only show up as Oxycodone "if" only 4-6 pills are taken I would like to see this.View Thread
If they are still treating you, then I'm wondering why you are still concerned about it. It seems like they found out you failed the test but did not dismiss you from their practice.
You ask "should" you get kicked out...I can't answer that, but do they have the right to, yes they do. It's actually a felony to give someone these meds or take them if you are not prescribed them.
I am NOT trying to be snarky when I say this...I am just amazed at how people think that extremely powerful, controlled substances, are taken like Tylenol. I guess I could never imagine in my life taking medications that are not prescribed to me. People would never do this with someone's BP medication, thyroid or heart meds....but it seems like people think it's no big deal to do so with these meds...
The medications are actually Hydrocodone and Oxycodone. They are two different meds so that is why it will show up differently on a lab test that uses gas chromatography mass spectrometry. I don't know all the details of exactly how long a medication stays in one's system but it does sound a bit odd to be there 2 months later.
What would have helped your situation greatly was coming clean with your Dr. when you did this and BEFORE you took the test. But this way, they think you are trying to hide this from them.
This is unfortunately why many people wonder why Drs. are hesistant to trust patients with these types of meds. That is why I am not trying to berate you, I am actually just surprised at the number of people I read on these boards and others who have done this, or take more of their medication than prescribed when they are having a "bad day"...
The only thing you can do now is go from there. What will happen will happen if they decide to dismiss you you can only plead your case and try to speak with the Dr.
It really doesn't matter at this point about how long something stays in your system if you are saying you aren't going to do this again then you need not worry about that.
The only other issue is that they now have this down on your medical records so if/when you ever need to see another Dr., it will show a failed urine test.
But you should just move forward and it seems as if they are keeping you on if they haven't said they are letting you go.....so it's a lesson learned and I appreciate your honesty with telling us on here. It is also a lesson for anyone reading that these medications....whether controlled meds or not, should never be shared with anyone else.
I was actually trying to help you get MORE support and better thoughts/suggestions about your situation.
It is actually laughable that you are accusing me of being "self righteous or sanctimonious"....
All I have requested in this particular thread is that people who are accusing the DEA or their state of directly causing a problem for you to please show us what law or regulation is the reason so we can all read this.
I have said numerous times that while I feel badly for those having problems....this thread was about this petition and started by a person using erroneous statements.
All I asked is that this be a logical and respectful discussion. When it comes to something like this where people are wanting to affect "change". It needs to be done with facts and figures.
We get the emotional side to it and how difficult it is for some people...that is not the point of this thread. I am very happy, as are others, to provide empathy and all the emotional support needed on other threads that are about someone's personal journey with chronic pain.
I only said to you that you need to demand proof from any Dr. or Pharmacist who is using the DEA as an excuse not to treat you or to not prescribe medications. Then you can look the law up yourself to see if they are telling the truth because there are many Drs. out there who are saying this but it isn't so. The DEA only goes after or gets involved in a DRs. business if there are many red flags that have come through the state first. A reputable Dr. has no worries of any of the laws that are in place now. And I tried to help you by saying if a Pharmacy is doing what you said, that is not the DEA but their own illegal act and you need to report them TO the DEA and the state.
That is why I said that you would be better served as you were continuing to post here and getting upset with the responses just because I was wanting to stick to the subject at hand on this one thread.
(In general...not to you specifically)
Again, all I, and others were asking is to get the proof of what they are accusing the DEA of doing. Because if they don't have it, then the petition is meaningless and really won't be taken seriously.
If it's a state issue, then you need to write directly to your state Senators/Representatives and the ones who wrote for and agreed to the bill/law that is causing you direct harm. And by this I mean getting the names of Pharmacies and Drs. to also sign a petition and back you up as well.
I can guarantee that if it's just pain patients who say they are having "trouble" finding Drs. to perscribe opiates to them....or make the wrong accusations about a specific thing like the complaint of seeing a Dr. every month when that is not a DEA regulation, it will fall on deaf ears and be thrown away.
So, it's not about being mean, not about "not" caring. It was about having a logical discussion on one thread that should require proof to links showing the actual laws/regulations that someone is objecting to on a petition.View Thread
If you are looking for support and thoughts/suggestions on your own situation, then starting your own thread would be great.
This particular thread was started based on a petition to the DEA. So myself and others were asking for proof of exactly what the DEA is doing that is affecting them in such a way they are not getting care from their Drs.
So far, we haven't seen anything either a state or DEA link.
I provided a DEA link that shows it is not true that they require patients to be seen every month. That is an individual Dr.'s choice.
This thread wasn't about offering help or support....That's why I said if you are wanting this then starting your own thread would be good. This was a thread and ongoing discussion about the laws set by the DEA or the state.
In a conversation like this, details matter, because if someone is saying we should "all" sign a petition....we should know exactly what part of a law or regulation someone is objecting to.
So, if you are posting here looking for help in your own situation.....please do a new thread and there will be lots of support...View Thread