My point is that I am a literal person when it comes to certain thing...So when you or someone else says, "Pharmacists" blame the DEA....You cannot speak for all of them in the entire state.
If you say to me that you have spoken to one, or two and they have directly said to you that the DEA has a law that say, "xyz" and gives you the information to go look up and we see this then I can agree.
But the DEA is not telling "all" Pharmacists that they cannot provide opiates. This is what I am objecting to when people are taking their personal experience and making it sound like this is happening to every single person and all Drs. or all Pharmacists are "afraid" of the DEA.
As mentioned, the state of FL may have other laws and regulations but that is not the DEA. The DEA is a federal government entity.
I know of at least 7 other people who belong to another online community that are prescribed Methadone for their long acting medication and live in FL and they are getting their meds. As I said earlier, many Drs. are only going to prescribe Oxycodone in the short acting form for breakthrough meds in smaller amounts. The states like Florida are definitely cracking down on someone needing more than 4 pills a day (120) for either their BT med, or for someone who only takes this med but is a chronic pain patient as it does raise a red flag as it's not the norm.
I'm a bit confused on what you are referencing as the issue about the "owner" is saying they won't allow scripts this way. Owner of what?
I also don't understand when you say that "timed release meds are wasted"...Methadone is a long acting medication. It's half life is anywhere from 15 to 60 hours with a mean of around 22. So it is considered time released as opposed to your Oxycodone which is short acting.
You can and certainly should report any Pharmacy that is saying they will not accept your insurance and will only take cash for prescriptions. If they are a national chain then this has nothing to do with the state or the DEA but an illegal act by that Pharmacy.
Just like there are rogue Drs. out there, there are also Pharmacies that have gotten shut down by trying to scam the system.
I use a Sam's club....They have bargaining power to have competitive pricing as well as have a larger access to a variety of medications. You do NOT have to be a member to use the Pharmacy in the "big box" stores.
I will have to read your other post as I don't understand why your Dr. isn't helping you find a Pharmacy that takes your insurance and has the meds you need. Or he should be trying to get you into another PM Dr.
As I mentioned in another post...Because I don't have insurance...I have had to work with my Dr. to adjust what medications I take.
I'm sorry that your individual experience is not good with your Dr. or a Pharmacy. I can accept individual stories but you or others have not shown us exactly what law is affecting you and causing this trouble.View Thread
If your Dr. is outright telling his patients that the DEA is "watching him" closely and is changing his prescribing habits, then that is a Dr. that you should get away from.
As mentioned, the DEA is not stopping Drs. from prescribing opiates and the dosages they choose for each patient.
It's also very suspect that the very Dr. who is prescribing and has chosen the meds for you is now saying that you are on too high of dosages that only a cancer patient would take???
I don't understand his comment about Methadone? That is still a strong opiate....
While I am sorry that you are going through this, the DEA is not "making" him do this unless he is doing things wrong in the first place and is nervous about things which it sure sounds that way to me. So that is why it is a good thing that you find a reputable Dr. who is not worried about the state or DEA.
The only thing my PM has ever mentioned is that it's certainly more "paperwork" (figuratively as he uses computers for everything) because of state laws.
And again, it's all the Dr.s way of documenting any type of test to make sure it clears through someone's insurance. And if it didn't go through then speak with him about this, he should be able to help write it off at this point.
I am truly NOT trying to discount anyone's situation, just bringing it back to the thread that was started and I still don't see where the DEA is doing anything here. It's your Dr's choice to decide what to do. There isn't a law out there by any state or DEA that is making ALL PM Drs. stop prescribing opiates to patients.View Thread
I would do neither until you see a Dr. Make sure that there isn't something serious going on like a bulging or herniated disc in your spine.
For me, even if I was "healthy" I would never go to a Chiropractor as I just don't happen to believe in what they do and it can be downright dangerous if someone has an issue with their spine as a Chiro is not trained to do a MRI or read the findings.
But I know that many do like Chiros so it's a personal choice. I'm just recommending that you see a Dr. first and then go from there.
Massage can be very helpful but only if they are aware of any injuries that you do have and making sure to avoid direct pressure to any area like that. I get many massages even though I have herniated discs and previous fusions...But my masseuse knows all of this and we just work on all the muscles to help keep them from getting too tight. It's important to drink plenty of water after any massage:)
This is just "your" feeling on this. All of us, so far, who actually have to have urine tests or pill counts have said we do NOT feel like a felon. We do NOT feel our Drs. don't trust us, it's for the greater good of trying to weed out those who abuse the system.
I'm actually friends with my PM outside our appts. and he only has to do the urine test once a year as I explained as a state law. Has nothing to do with "trust"..We are just following protocol and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I made my point before about the no texting ban...I don't feel bad that the government doesn't trust me...I am happy to oblige because I have seen, first hand, the devastation caused by those who have killed others by texting and driving.
So...it's pretty funny that the one person who ISN'T being tested is so upset and telling all of us how we "feel" when we have been saying otherwise. This isn't helping your point....View Thread
??? Again...you are totally misreading my posts...
I am speaking about actual addicts...not pain patients...
Both CTBeth and I have said numerous times now that I don't understand why you are ignoring this..
There are some pain patients who are having trouble finding a good Dr. to help them....
That has NOTHING to do with this petition to the DEA which once again in two more posts you can't come up with actual proof of what you are accusing them of. You keep changing your story every single post.
Now you are lumping it into states...Well..which ones...which laws or regulations specifically are you against.....
I am all for a healthy and logical discussion but I also presented facts to you but I have yet to see facts from you on what you are saying is the fault of the DEA.
Just because there are some people who are truly in pain and are having trouble finding a Dr. to treat them, does not mean that it's all because of the state or DEA.
And you are absolutely wrong to say that "most pain patients" do not get addicted.
Addiction boards are filled with those who started out having pain but got addicted to the medications..
Addiction is something that I believe (as well as many Physicians) is an actual chemical imbalance in the brain. This is something that is not about "will power"....My mom has struggled her entire life with cigarettes, which she quit, alcohol, which she quit, and now it is overeating. She is a very strong person but has trouble with addictive behavior.
Anyone can get addicted to pain meds. This still has nothing to do with recognizing the difference, which I have pointed out many times, between an actual epidemic of prescription drug abuse and those that have real health/pain issues that are taking their meds as prescribed and have no problem with addiction.
There is absolutely a difference between addiction and dependence and that is not the issue at all. Most of all of us are dependent on our meds if we have been on them a long time, just like other meds like heart or thyroid medication.
To not have your eyes open to the true issues of prescription abuse that has been on the rise the last 10 years is only seeing one side of the coin. But you seem to only want to focus on just the pain patient side.
I recognize there are those who suffer from addiction and the laws that are in place are actually helping Drs. focus more on those who are not abusing medications as we do not fail urine tests, our pill counts are fine, and we don't Dr. shop or use the ER to get meds.
As I said, this is also helping Drs. discover more quickly who may be struggling and starting down the wrong path if they are having a patient who is running out early or failed a test and hopefully get them help before it's too late.
If anything, I wish there were more monies spent on addiction and helping those, especially who do not have insurance or the money to seek treatment.
This entire thread, started by you, was a petition against the DEA in which you are blaming them for everything from pill counts, urine tests and having to see the Dr. every month. We have shown that this is not due to the DEA.
There are many non PM Drs. out there that are deciding not to treat chronic pain patients as they don't want to go to the trouble to do the extra certification/training. So yes, it will take time for those who are being treated by them to seek out a new Dr. But this happens a lot if a Dr. leaves a practice, or drops an insurance plan.
I can't say it any clearer that IF you, or anyone, has a specific issue with a specific part of a law/regulation that is out there then by all means, petition away. But be clear, give out facts, and then give people links so they can see for themselves.View Thread
***I am replying and my comments are in general and not specifically to Lori even though I happened to click on her name to reply***
I actually read through the actual bill and don't see anything that is really unusual that most states aren't doing as well.
Please keep in mind that it is a regular person on a forum who is making the initial comments about the bill on the medscape website for those who read it. I don't see any actual statistics from the police dept. stating that the crime rate has gone up specifically due to this bill and if it has, showing what those crimes are. Of course there are a lot of addicts that are having more trouble getting their meds from Drs. so they do turn to heroin or crime...but that doesn't affect us as I truly don't see where a person like myself would ever do such a thing no matter what type of pain I am in...
I've been in excruciating pain before and without a Dr. or insurance. It stinks....but I pressed on...
I take no issue if someone who lives in Kentucky wants to write their government and petition against the specific politicians who wrote up and passed this bill if they disagree with it.
But as CTBeth mentioned, it's very important to not just rail against the whole thing as there are many logical pieces to this bill of having trained Physicians only who prescribe controlled substances, using the KASPER system for tracking everything and registering patients.
This is even information that was sent from the cabinet in KY to all Physicians about HB1
HB 1 and the Board Regulations prohibit physicians from prescribing controlled substances.
There is nothing in HB 1 or the Board's regulations that prohibits physicians from prescribing controlled substances.
So if you are going to object to something, make sure you have read the entire bill/law/regulation whether Federal or state and then be specific to what you are against.
"Peskypain is not aware of those of us out here with documented years of surgery, injections and legally prescribed medications in reasonable doses."
I don't know where people are getting these wild assumptions?
Just because I don't happen to disagree with a specific petition that I still haven't gotten any proof on what is being said about the DEA...does not mean I don't realize that there are Drs. out there that do much more than the DEA or the state asks of them which to me is an issue to take up with that particular Dr.
I also wrote that I am very aware (I have been posting on this for a few years now in other chronic pain"communities" ) that things are changing with requiring non PM Drs. to either take more certifications and get more training if they want to treat any patient for "chronic" pain with controlled substances. This is having many of them send their patients elsewhere.
I just don't do blanket statements or petitions just because people are "angry" or "upset"....
If the OP or anyone else will show us exactly where the DEA is doing something they claim we would all like to read it. So far I have only seen people say their Dr. is doing x, y, or z.
I'll say it again...the DEA does not require a patient to be seen monthly. The DEA is not requiring monthly or even 90 day urine test. The DEA does not have a cap on how much codeine a Dr. can prescribe.
These are either state laws or more likely just a choice by your Dr.
Yes, FL and KY has more strict laws/regulations than some other states but still waiting for proof from someone in these states to show me where they are stopping people from getting certain prescriptions for pain meds.
People often mistake when a Dr. or even a Pharmacy takes issue with a chronic pain patient being on larger amounts of short acting medication long term. As I wrote earlier, most PM Drs. will move their patient to a long acting medication so they only need one or two...three max a day (every 8 or 12 hours). Short acting meds for breakthrough are meant to be only used once in awhile. So yes, they are trying to cut back on these meds all across the U.S. There shouldn't be a need for someone to need more than 3-4 max a day of short acting meds unless it's an acute situation. Otherwise a Dr. would move up in strength on the long acting med.
So when this is done..people are thinking it's the "DEA" that is having their Dr. not feel comfortable or wanting to prescribe a lot of short acting meds month after month.
I had to switch from OxyContin to MSContin years ago when the generic patent ran out and the new formula patent started. I didn't blame this switch on my Dr., the state, or the DEA...I don't have any health insurance and it's too expensive. Even if I had insurance, I don't disagree with requesting someone try less expensive meds first.
And in regard to Pharmacies, all over the country they have stopped keeping large shipments of controlled substances in their Pharmacy and/or warehouse to prevent theft/robberies. Most of them only get shipments in once a week. And yes, in FL Oxycodone in short acting is harder to find but not impossible. But if somoene has chronic pain, then there are many other meds to choose from to take. It's not about demanding a certain type/brand.
Again....I definitely disagree with any poster/member who is trying to play the "my pain is greater than yours or I know more about chronic pain than you do" as quoted above in bold. It has nothing to do with empathy and hoping someone finds a good, reputable PM Dr. who can help them with their pain but this doesn't mean it's all about opiates and this is the only form of pain relief and that "everyone" deserves those types of med no matter what.
This whole thread is about the DEA and claims I haven't seen yet so I hope we will get the details soon.View Thread
Not sure how long you have been seeing them but having a urine test every 90 days is not a DEA requirement at all.. I don't even think there is a state out there that has that as their law. (If you know otherwise in your state please show us a link)
So, that sounds like a personal decision by your Dr.
I would be objecting and be upset with your Dr. for the out of pocket expense if your Dr. is making you do these of his own accord so often. You can easily find this out by looking at your state laws but I know for a fact it isn't the DEA. You can also ask him directly if it's the state making him or his choice. (I am betting the latter)
My Dr. only uses the type of lab that does the gas chromatography mass spectrometry as this is 99.9% accurate. I would not trust just regular dip stick tests. The test I mentioned is close to $1000 and I am blessed in that because I do not have any health insurance my PM writes off the entire amount for me the once a year as it is a state requirement (once a year) so he didn't want it to negatively affect his patients who couldn't pay.
This is why I say everything is not the state or DEA as there are great Drs. out there that will do what is needed legally but not anything more when they have a trusted relationship with the patient.View Thread
"of this is DEA no matter what others here say, they have changed the rules, you have and are experiencing the results of that now sadly, and have made doctors afraid to write and patients often afraid to ask for the amounts they need." (Quoted from LeeJCaroll)
We are just asking that you show us exactly what you are referencing that has changed that is the DEA's fault and not your individual state. You should be able to provide us with a link to the DEA site as I did to show me what you are referencing.
If you looked at the link I gave you, it specifically says that it does NOT say that a patient has to go every month if they are prescribe opiates. I do not know of ANY DEA law/regulation that states the amount of codeine that you are given has to go from 120 to 90 pills.
So, please show us where you are getting your information.
"And absolutely you dont bother with pain support communities or the humiliation, discomfort, inconvenience, whatever word(s) you choose to sign an opiod contract or have to agree to randonm drug testing, something only those in methadone and recovery/jail have to do," (Quoted from LeeJCaroll) This particular comment above I have no clue what you are meaning by this? Again, you know nothing about my life, who I associate with, and what communities I belong to. I speak for myself and many others whom I do know that have chronic pain and no one is humiliated or horribly upset by having to do a random urine test or pill count or signing a pain mgmt. contract. None of us feel compared to someone in "jail" or "methadone recovery"???? I don't know where you are getting this stuff! It's just part of the process and that I am cognizant to realize how prescription abuse/death has become an epidemic to where there needs to be certain parameters set to ensure that people are taking their meds as prescribed. I only have to get a test once a year and it's very simple for me to pee in a cup and to bring in my bottles. If this helps them weed out those who are taking advantage of the system, as well as possibly catch someone who is starting down the wrong path and a Dr. can help them before it's too late, then this is fine for me. I don't worry one bit about my test or pill count so it's no big deal. Again, I can speak for many of those that I have come to know over the last 6 years of being in chronic pain management. Everyone who has been doing this long term realizes that opiates are a privlege when it comes to PM...as are other controlled substances....that it is not something most of started out with, it took years to get to where we are and what dosages/meds we are on and we take them very seriously. I am a partner in my health care with my Dr. and Pharmacist. There is nothing demeaning about my care at all. So, you keep being upset about the things I am saying but I have given you proof of what the DEA law is about how often they require patients be seen and it's only 3 months. I will guarantee that if you, or someone you actually know is being required to come every month, it is either a state law, or the preference of that particular Dr. for all patients or just them. Just like with a law that I hope comes to every single state about no texting and driving. I don't feel "humiliated" or not trusted...I am perfectly fine with never doing this while driving and having it an actual law to help prevent senseless accidents and death because there are people who just don't take it seriously enough which then causes harm to themselves and others. That's the best analogy I can make, I'm willing to "sacrifice" on my end for the greater good for many:)